O'REILLY: In the Impact Segment tonight, the troubling and emotional issue of immigration. We all know that America was founded by immigrants from Europe and, over the centuries, made strong by people who came here and worked hard for a better life, but, today, some want to keep immigrants out of the USA.

Joining us now from -- in the studio here is Professor George Borjas , a teacher of public policy at Harvard's Kennedy School, my alma mater, and the author of the new book, "Heaven's Door: Immigration Policy in the American Economy."

Now this sounds like a dry subject, you know, but it is -- it's not, and what's interesting about you is you and your family came here from Cuba, all right.

GEORGE J. BORJAS , HARVARD PUBLIC POLICY PROFESSOR: That's right.

O'REILLY: And you are saying now, in your opinion, that if there wasn't any political stuff involved, your family shouldn't have the right to come to the United States.

BORJAS: What I'm -- that's correct. We came as refugees.

O'REILLY: Right.

BORJAS: And what I'm saying is that if you look at the economic impact of current immigration and you try to set up an immigration policy that will be most beneficial for the U.S. population, that immigration policy will be quite different from the one we have now. It would tend to stress the admission of skilled workers. See, our current immigration policy is essentially that only -- that for the most part only allows people who have family members already living in the U.S., and what I'm saying is that that's fine, except it's not really the best policy in terms of the economic impact.

O'REILLY: Yeah, but you're -- I mean, man, people are going to be angry at you. You're saying take the smartest, the most skilled, and all the other people who want a better life -- they don't get in here.

BORJAS: Let me give you...

O'REILLY: Build a big wall from Brownsville to San Diego. Knock them down. They can't come in.

BORJAS: No, Bill. I don't want to build a wall. Let me give you an example, OK? Last year -- the U.S. actually raffles 50,000 visas a year.

O'REILLY: Right. The lottery.

BORJAS: The lottery. You know how many people applied to get 50,000 slots?

O'REILLY: Millions, right?

BORJAS: Eight million.

O'REILLY: Yeah.

BORJAS: So the point of the matter is there are many people who want to come to the U.S. than we're willing to admit.

O'REILLY: Sure.

BORJAS: And the question is by what -- by what rationale are we going to make choices?

O'REILLY: Yeah, but you -- it's not fair. It's not fair not to give some of the downtrodden a shot.

BORJAS: They may -- let me -- let me actually follow up on that point. Right now, our current policy is one that only admits family members, right? There are only 200 people living in the U.S. right now from the Congo. There are 50 million people in the Congo. What chance do they have to come in?

O'REILLY: Well, in the lottery, they have the equal chance of --if they get lucky...

BORJAS: But the lottery is a very small part of the total -- of the total number of...

O'REILLY: Right. So, basically, the government is doing what you advocate. They're not letting people who are unskilled in, but I don't think it's fair. I don't think it's fair. My people were -- came from Ireland. Your people came from Cuba. I don't know about your people, but my people didn't have any money at all.

BORJAS: Neither did we. Neither did we.

O'REILLY: The English took it all away. So I -- you know, come on.

BORJAS: No, but the question, Bill, is that we have to make a choice. We -- we have many more people who want to come into the country than we're willing to admit.

O'REILLY: No, we don't, Professor. We don't have to make a choice because we've got enough educated people here, like you and me, all right?

BORJAS: Right.

O'REILLY: We've got enough people who can do the skilled jobs. Give the other people a shot at it.

BORJAS: But when you give those -- when you give less skilled people a shot and let them in by the millions, which is what we're doing more or less, that has an impact on less skilled people already here. That has an adverse impact on their earnings.

O'REILLY: That's what capitalism is. Every -- the strong rise, and the others, you know, work at the level that they work at, see. I -- I don't mind that. Competition is good, and if it's going to drive the lower people to work harder or get more education because they've got somebody from Haiti or somebody from Latvia pushing them, then that's good. See, I don't want a society of elite people. I don't want that.

BORJAS: No, but what I'm saying is the family connection should not be the only factor that determines -- that determines who gets into the country.

O'REILLY: No, I don't like the family connection system.

BORJAS: And that's what -- that's the system we have right now.

O'REILLY: It's a system in a way, but you have also a -- other people can come here as students, and they can -- they -- there's other ways to get here.

BORJAS: They're very -- there are other ways to get here, but for the -- the large bulk of legal immigration comes in through family connections. I mean, over 70 percent of the visas we give out legally are essentially for family reasons.

O'REILLY: Yeah. You have a relative and this and that.

BORJAS: Exactly. That's the way it works.

O'REILLY: So you're in charge of the immigration policy. You wouldn't change a thing then, would you?

BORJAS: Well, I would actually change the formula that lets people in. Basically, you can think of immigration policy as a formula. We're basically asking people something about themselves. What we ask them for now is, "Do you have a family member already living in the U.S.?" If you do...

O'REILLY: Right. And you would ask what?

BORJAS: If you do, you get a hundred points. If you don't, you get zero points, the way it is now. I would ask things -- "Do you have a family member?" and that's -- that's a valid reason for letting people in, but I would also ask, "How much schooling do you have?" "What kind of work do you do?" and try to match the variables that I would put in the formula with a be -- to have a better economic impact on the U.S.

O'REILLY: All right. I understand it from an economic point of view, but from a humanistic point of view, the poor people are going to get screwed.

BORJAS: And that's why in my book I stress throughout the book that the policy I advocate is the one you will want to advocate if what you care about is economic impact.

O'REILLY: Right. I...

BORJAS: If you care about something else, then...

O'REILLY: I don't. I don't. I want to give people a shot at it.

BORJAS: ... then that's fine, but...

O'REILLY: But not everybody! You can't let them all in.

BORJAS: But, again, Bill -- I agree, but you have to then decide which people should get a shot at it.

O'REILLY: Well, I'd have a lottery -- open lottery for everybody. Hey, Professor, thanks a lot. Don't...

BORJAS: Thank you very much.

O'REILLY: Hey, don't flunk me up there.

BORJAS: Thank you very much.

O'REILLY: We'll be right back with the Delta Force.

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