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Fall 2006, Volume 2

Frederick Sumaye was Prime Minister of Tanzania from 1995 to 2005, making him the longest-serving in the East African nation’s history. He obtained a Diploma in Agricultural Engineering from Egerton College in Kenya and went on to head the rural energy department at CARMATEC in Arusha.  From 1987-1995, he served as the Minister for Agriculture of Tanzania.  In November 1995, he was appointed Prime Minister.  The former Prime Minister is back in school studying Public Administration. This interview was conducted on November 14, 2006 at the John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University.

 

Africa Policy Journal (APJ): After ten years at the top, how does it feel to have the pressure of a nation lifted off your shoulders?

Prime Minister Sumaye (PM Sumaye): Well, I feel quite relaxed now that I am not a leader in the government but, of course, I still have a lot of concerns about the state of my country.  Therefore, I am not completely detached.  I still have a lot of interests to see that things are moving in the right direction and so on. 

APJ: What motivated you to take a break and return to school?

PM Sumaye: I have been in politics for quite some time. Twenty years is not a short period.  So I thought that after some time, it would be good to have other people have that leadership position, and then some of us can step aside.

APJ: According to you, what characteristics make a strong leader?

PM Sumaye: I do not know if I can say it for everybody, but I think one of the qualities of a leader is vision.  You must be a visionary leader, you must know the problems of your people, and then you must genuinely tackle those problems.  You must genuinely fight for what you believe in because that will solve the problems of your people.  If you are backing up, you are not a good leader. However, let me say that there has always been an argument on whether leaders are born or made.  I think there must be an element in you that must have leadership, which you are born with.  And, when you participate in leadership now, you sort of build on what is already in you.

 APJ: As a former leader, what do you think of businessman Mo Ibrahim’s proposal to offer $5 million dollars to good African leaders when they leave office?

 PM Sumaye: Frankly speaking, I would personally be very much against that, and I really hope that other African leaders would sensibly be against that too.  I do not think it is right.  If Dr. Ibrahim really thinks he wants to do something good for Africa, and if he really thinks good governance is the problem, then let him establish a school where good governance can be taught rather than saying that he will give a present to a president because he has left office voluntarily with good governance.  Good governance is what is required of a president in the first place.  So unless Dr. Ibrahim wants to think that African Presidents are all corrupt, I disagree.  We have many good presidents in Africa.  Yes, we have some few African leaders that are problematic.  If you really think about it, though, if Dr. Ibrahim really believes that presidents are corrupt, then they will use this same method and system to get to that presidential position for that prize.  This is not right.  I think he can do better things for Africa with that money.  

 APJ: Of which accomplishments as Prime Minister are you most proud?

 PM Sumaye: Well, I have been asked this question several times and I have sort of refrained from answering this question in the way people would want.  I do not like to single out things as if I am operating as a single team leader.  I think that I would say that the success that we see in TZ now is the success of the third phase government, which was led by President Mkapa and I as his right hand man in the sense that I was the leader of government in terms of implementation. 

APJ: What are some of those successes that you can specifically identify?

 PM Sumaye: We have many of them.  Our economy has picked up very well.  We left when the GDP was growing at 6.7%.  The inflation --which was a big problem in Tanzania when we started and was over 30%-- is now only 4.4%.  The revenue collections was averaging between 25-30 billion TZ shillings in a month when we took over; however, when we left it was over 190 billion TZ shillings a month- so this is a big jump.  We also brought a lot of reforms into the government.  Basically, we reformed every sector from civil service to the banking institutions.  We also promoted private sector investment, and that picked up a lot and is doing very well now.  And actually, TZ was rated as the favored investment destination in eastern, central and southern Africa, besides South Africa.  We have reformed the education system, the health delivery system, and the road construction.  Many things have changed.

 APJ: What are some things your administration wished they could have accomplished while in office, but did not succeed in doing?

 PM Sumaye: Well, poverty is still a very big problem in our country.  We would have wished that we could have gotten rid of poverty.  HIV is another challenge that we have not quite been able to roll back.  In some areas the infection rates have started going down, but in other areas they have peaked.  So, there is still a lot of work that must be done in this area as well.

APJ: Under your leadership the government eliminated school fees at the primary school level for all Tanzanians. What were some of the challenges with this policy, and what do you think will be the impact of it in the long run?

PM Sumaye: In the long run, it is true: this policy will be a burden to the government.  And two, you will also need people to be responsible for their children, and to eventually start to contribute something for their children’s education.  The government enacted this policy originally because we really wanted to achieve a higher rate at which all primary school aged children would go to school. Once the policy was enacted and people started to understand that their children needed to be enrolled in school, and the children started understanding that they had to be in school, the government has slowly started to think about how to bring back into play the parents roles in their children’s education.

 APJ: Tanzanians are currently facing major electricity problems. What are some steps you think should be taken to ameliorate this chronic problem?

 PM Sumaye: They have started taking steps already.  In fact, I have read in the papers that they have imported some generators now.  It will not quite eliminate the problem, but it will decrease the problem.  However, our biggest problem in TZ is that we rely too heavily on water.  We built dams because hydro electricity is much cheaper than regular electricity.  We thought we had a lot of rivers and dams that would never go dry, but because of the global warming effects, the climate has changed.  There is also the destruction of the environment that has really affected TZ.  This destruction is man-made due to our farming community, and those that keep animals.  There is too much pressure on the land because people have moved into those rain areas to take advantage of it, but this has caused some destruction.  Overall, the significant change in rain patterns has really affected TZ land.

APJ: Tanzania is very rich in natural resources but remains one of the poorest countries in the world.  Briefly, what do you think could be done to allow Tanzanians to benefit from their resources?

PM Sumaye: Yes, TZ is rich in resources.  But the exploitation of these resources did not start a long time ago.  Actually, it is only a few years ago that we have established mines. Besides the ailing diamond minds in Shinyanga, the rest are all new.  We hope that as time goes on TZ will start getting benefits from its mineral sector, but otherwise in the past we did not have any serious exploitation of these minerals.  It was just small scale miners who did not even know where they were selling or where they would get their resources.  There is a concern in the country now that maybe the government will have to look into the mineral sector arrangement of sort of “sharing the cake.”  We actually set a commission to look into this, and they actually finished their research at the end of our term.  They did a good job.  We left the report on this issue with the new government.  I know that the new government is working on it to see if there are areas where we can still negotiate with those who are prospecting, and those who are mining.  You see, initially there were no big companies in TZ, therefore we were trying to encourage them.  Because of this, there were some concessions that were made so that they can come.  Now, TZ is known for its mineral potential, and now we can negotiate. 

APJ: Speaking of foreign investment, how do you think globalization in the long-run will impact Tanzania, and is TZ strong enough to benefit from this effect?

Globalization is an animal that you cannot run away from.  It is always with you, and it is the way the whole global trend is moving now.  But, it is true. TZ, just like any other developing country finds it difficult to cope with the forces of globalization.  But hopefully, if we can learn to take advantage of it, maybe we will benefit from it in the long-run.  In the short-run, however poor countries will definitely suffer because there is no way we can cope with the forces of globalization.  For example, when the international community says that when the markets will be open everyone will have the advantage to participate it is not true because in order to be a real participant in the market you must be able to put forward products that can compete in the market.  However, poor countries do not have products that can compete in the markets. When they say that third world countries, particularly those in Africa, can just send whatever they want to sell it is not correct because you are restricted by the kind of quality that they require.  If you cannot meet the standards how can you participate? They set the standards very high for these products but then they say you can bring anything you want.  In the standards and the quality of products, there is a great gap.  Therefore, it is very hard to benefit from this trade.  This is the game.  So, I feel like globalization will hurt the poor countries until these countries have areas where they have comparative advantage.  But, this will take some time.

 APJ: In the time that you’ve been in policy school and in the United States, are there lessons you have learned that could make you a better leader and policymaker?

PM Sumaye: Oh yes.  I think I have learnt a lot.  I have learnt first from meeting with people and engaging in the exchange of ideas.  There is vast experience here amongst the people, and you meet lots of people here.  I have learnt from the seminars that are offered here. We always have seminars in various buildings and all one has to do is choose between seminars because they are happening all the time.  I have also learnt a lot from the courses I am taking. Some of these courses have helped me reflect on my own experiences in government, while other courses and ideas are very new to me.  But, I am learning a lot, so I am quite happy.

APJ: You have four children.  What are some lessons that you have tried to instill in your children as they have grown-up in this increasingly complex world?

PM Sumaye: Yes, I have tried my best to tell them how I want them to be.  I have three boys and one girl.  Two of them are working and two of them are in school.  So, I have tried to tell them about what I think the world is.

APJ: What are you thinking of doing after school?

PM Sumaye: I will surely go back home.  I still want to be useful to the society.  I am thinking that I will work in an area that will be dealing with the problems of Africa.  Yes, this is an area where I would really want to be useful.  I cannot say where I will take full employment.  But I know that there are some organizations that deal with these issues, and if they want me in form of doing consultancy work or short time assignments, I would really be interested because I am most concerned with how Africa can be improved.

APJ: There is a rumor in Tanzania that you will eventually return to your country and run for President.  What do you have to say about this?

PM Sumaye: Well, they have always had those rumors.  In a way, this is why I wanted to get out of that place, at least for a while to get away from these rumors.  They have always been putting these rumors in every corner.  Even in the party, they have always spread rumors that I am going to take position X, and so on, even though I have not even attempted.  So, these things are always there in politics. 

APJ: Where would you like to see Tanzania 10 years from now?

PM Sumaye: For sure, what I really want to see is TZ as one of the, if not the shining example of Africa in terms of economic development, well-being of her people, good governance, and peace and security.  This is really what kind of TZ that I want to see, and I believe we are on the right track.  I think we can get there.   

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© 2006 President and Fellows of Harvard University